Tuesday 19 October 2010

Back to Lay - First Steps - Carole

I have been asked by many people how (and why) to do a back to lay trade.
Firstly I think you need to know that back to lays trades (or greening up) is not for everyone. I you are the kind of person who loves the gamble of the potential big winnings and likes to cheer your horse home then back to lays are probably not for you.
Back to lays are for the person who is more interested in steady profit whilst cutting out some of the risk (if you get it right!!).
There are many different ways to do it and as you become used to it and learn more you can adapt how you do it so it works best for you. I am going to concentrate on a very simple way to begin with and will then post a further post on how to work on championships.

For now I will concentrate simply on how to execute a back to lay trade on Betfair. Firstly you need to find the right horse (more of that in a moment) you will then back your horse before the race lets say at 6.2 for £10. Secondly and also before the race you need to lay your horse (that's the pink button for complete beginners) at odds of 3.1 for double your stake (in this example £20).
VERY IMPORTANT - you have the option to "keep" your bet - you must select keep. You will then see over on the left, where you can see your potential win or loss, that you will make £10 no matter which horse wins assuming that your lay odds are met. This is known as "greening up" or a "green book" because as you will see all the numbers are green(profit)!! Very exciting you cannot lose as long as your lay odds are met!! The potential loss is therefore £10 (lay odds not met) and potential gain £10 (no matter which horse wins).

So there are a few things to do -
  • check your setting on Betfair to make sure that you can see your pink lay button.
  •  and also make sure you know where the "keep" option is.
  •  You will also need to ensure that your settings show how much profit or loss you will make over on the left.
  •  If you are not sure about any of this please phone Betfair and they will talk you through it.
  • Try it for Minimum Bets until you are confident  you are familiar with it before risking your bank!

I would suggest that you try it first with £2/£4 bets until you get used to it.

Also of course you need to know which horse that you are going to trade on, again there are different ways to do this. If you are fairly good at picking winners or placed horses then you might try it with those horses that you would have picked any way.

The way that I do it is to look for a horse that trades shorter in running. I have a long list of horses that I have built up over a period of time. Both Neil Munroe and Rory Gallagher are very good on Timeform Radio at in running trading and listening to both of them has taught me a great deal. A website http://www.patternform.co.uk/  (Best kept secret on the web) is excellent both for front runners and horses that trade shorter in running and is free. Timeform also have stats that will tell you how short a horse has gone in running, also free. Use this info and build up your own bank of horses that are good for a back to lay trade.

As with all bets there is no guarantee that you will green up on every trade - my success rate is 60%-70% which I am very happy with. However, I am a steady profit type rather than the gambler who likes to get a big win in so you may find trading boring - beware!!

A second posting will follow on how to work champinionships.

6 comments:

Unknown said...

This is exactly what we need to write on the blog and just a fabulous piece of work - I am hoping the readers will come back to Carole with questions leading from this article -
there are plenty of answers available that at least one (or all) of the team can answer -- so any questions about banking - minimum bets/ races to avoid etc. will be answered by the guys
thanks Carole for getting this ball rolling
BobT

thisgirllikeslaying said...

Thanks for the clear explanation Carole.

Slow and steady is also my motto...

I enjoy trading, find is fun.

Keep up the good work... TGLL

Anonymous said...

hi caroll
thanks for explanation i await eagerly for the next chapter, you might even convert me to your way of betting keep it up
colin

HMFC1965 said...

Good Job Carole, well explained. I do a BTL on most of my fancies over certain odds. The exception being short priced selections i.e under 4/1, I just let them run. I tend not to go half odds, double stake. I usually go stake back about half the odds and then a further short priced lay to get money on the field as I like to win more money than my lay if my selection wins. Hope that makes sense to everone else. I know Carole will no what I'm talking about. I would also like to Champion Neil Munro; he is King of In Running bets & as Carole says Rory Delargy is also very good.

Anonymous said...

this is very good and i will wont to try it but its a bit scarey can you tel me about how to use betfair - its easier at the bookmakers and am new to this can i bet less that 2 pounds on ahose and lay it less than £2 until i get used to it sorry to be so thick but if i can bet lower will try and do your way wich is very intrsting

Carole Jackson said...

For the person who has asked how to use Betfair this is a bit much to explain in this blog but if you call Betfair I am sure that they will point you towards some training videos - or try gooling it. The minimum stake is £2